It’s not every day that a bishop and an atheist sit down to discuss religion in front of a camera. Yet, that’s exactly what happened in a recent episode of the “Within Reason” podcast—an intellectual goldmine for the philosophically curious.
The episode is titled “A Bishop and an Atheist Discuss Meaning,” and covers topics from the search for objective meaning, to death and our drive to transcend it, to the meaning of Christ’s resurrection. It’s a splendid and deeply satisfying intellectual exercise between two good faith, passionate seekers of Truth: atheist host Alex O’Connor and American bishop Robert Barron, known as the “bishop of social media” for his enormous online presence. It’s truly a must-see.
Below is a meditation on Bishop Barron’s theology as explained in this podcast. Specifically, I consider the ways that Barron emphasizes an increasingly sophisticated understanding of God—one that differs in surprising yet compelling ways from typical discourse. Rather than describe the Christian life as one of an intense loss of freedom, Barron argues for an invigorating, empowering experience, answering our greatest question: “What is the meaning of life?”
God as the source of objective value
If you’re as philosophically curious as me, then you’ve no doubt (at some point) entertained the possibility of reductive materialism. According to this metaphysical theory, all that exists belongs to the realm of matter and nothing more. This can be a tempting stance, especially for those who have recently transitioned from theism to agnosticism or atheism.
However, it doesn’t take much scrutiny to realize reductive materialism’s limitations, as it doesn’t address normativity. Namely, it can only explain what “is,” not what “ought to be.” Thus, it fails to answer important questions, such as, “What is good?” and “What is bad?”
This is problematic, as value judgments are at the heart of one’s sense of meaning in life. Without robust meaning, humans are left rudderless and flailing about in a sea of chaos, spiritually speaking. In order to counter this predicament, Bishop Barron offers an enticing meditation on the prospect of true, objective meaning in life.
First, all people, regardless of their beliefs, hold some sense of meaning, whether they believe it or not. By this, Barron means that all act in accordance with an “ultimate concern”—an unmoved mover of the will of sorts. Indeed, everyone has a “highest good” from which they derive their motivation to act at all.
Consider the following thought exercise. Ask yourself why you get out of bed in the morning. Whatever your answer is, perhaps “because I have to go to work,” ask yourself why you do this. Maybe you go to work because you need money. Progressively take your questioning a step further.
“Well, why do you need money?”
“Because I need to provide for my family.”
“Why do you need to provide for your family?”
“Because I want them to be well.”
“Why is it important for them to be well?”
Keep doing this until you get to the inevitable, “I think X is important just because.” According to Barron, your ultimate concern is whatever X is, and you live your life meaningfully in accordance with it. Hence, we can deduce much about a person’s lifestyle simply by discovering what they hold most dear.
That being said, not all ultimate concerns are created equal. It’s not difficult to imagine, for example, someone whose main goal in life is to enrich themselves, no matter the cost to others. This attitude might manifest in a number of antisocial behaviors, such as theft or violence. Conversely, if someone’s highest value is compassion, they’d be more likely to engage in prosocial acts rooted in co-operation and empathy.
So far, none of this is incompatible with agnosticism or atheism. Barron crosses over to theism when he asserts the existence of a cosmically objective highest concern—God. The explanation goes as follows:
There are certain objective values that exist in the world. We know they exist because we can intuit them from “spiritual” experiences, such as witnessing an act of self-sacrifice, grasping a mathematical formula or marvelling at a beautiful painting. The more time we spend in the realm of these values, the more, Barron argues, we’re led to their source: God. We transform from a “little” to a “great” soul when we orient our lives towards God. Then, life becomes exceptionally fulfilling and meaningful.
Personally, I’d describe this as doing exactly what you’re meant to do in life. You’re on the path designed just for you—the one leading to self-actualization.
How can we get here, in layman’s terms? The first step is to believe in yourself. Understand that you’re capable of becoming your best version. Admittedly, this might be difficult. And it’s not enough to simply tell yourself you can. You need to truly believe it.
Next, pay careful attention to your deepest intuition. You know exactly the kind of person you’re supposed to be. You should be able to feel it in your bones, even visualize it in your mind’s eye. Then, commit to living your life in accordance with this vision. Commit to doing what you know you’re “supposed” to do every day of your life. With time, you’ll transform into someone truly great.
God as saving love
Later in the podcast, the conversation shifts to the question of Christianity’s essence. Barron’s response is remarkably automatic and unequivocal: “Jesus Christ is risen from the dead.” He then continues with a fascinating and useful interpretation of this central message, thereby deeply enriching the traditional narrative.
First, a word about that tradition. I initially learned about the Lord’s Passion and Resurrection in Catholic school. There, I listened to my teachers read the poignant Gospel accounts. I can remember reflecting on the injustice of Christ’s execution. How could such a good man be treated that way? Tortured, humiliated and killed as if he was the worst criminal?
I also sympathized with the intense suffering of Mary, as she wept at the foot of the cross from which her son hung. If there’s anything that children grasp, it’s the sacredness of the mother-child relationship. I grew remorseful upon hearing about the death of Jesus, the removal of his body and its transfer to the tomb.
Nonetheless, despite the utter depravity of such events, there was reason to be hopeful. Anyone remotely familiar with the story would know that a miracle was to take place: The rock sealing the tomb would be moved, the tomb would be found empty, and Jesus would appear to his followers, fully alive again, triumphant against his persecutors. The disciples would then devote the rest of their lives to spreading the good news: Jesus Christ is risen from the dead! Salvation and entry into heaven are attainable simply by believing in the resurrection of Christ, who willingly died for our sins.
This is a straightforward narrative that children can follow with ease. And, as Barron would no doubt remind us, it’s by no means wrong. But it can also be told in a more sophisticated, metaphorical manner.
Consider the symbol of the cross. Let’s say it stands for everything wrong in life. Physical suffering, institutional injustice and betrayal are all important parts of the Passion narrative, in which Jesus is spat on, whipped, humiliated, and left to die a slow and painful death. Through this narrative, our attention is drawn to the depths of human suffering.
Then, a reversal takes place. Evil is overcome. God’s Love prevails in the resurrection—the supreme assurance that no matter what happens to us, including death, we shall be carried through. All we need to do is believe it. Hence, “saved” is the way we feel when we truly realize the omnipotence of God’s Love. This explains the calm resolve of the martyrs. Even execution by lions couldn’t shake their faith.
Likewise, Barron would argue, faith in God’s saving Love is the antidote to the suffering in our own lives. If we “believe in” the miracle of the resurrection, life’s negativity will be converted into something truly Good. This gives us a reason to carry on, despite the most difficult circumstances.
Here, we return to the topic of meaning. Remember, God is the source of all objective value. It makes sense then that He, whose Love sustains us through it all, would be our most persuasive reason to live.
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:38-39
Fully alive as the living God
So far, we’ve described God doubly as the source of objective value and saving Love. Let us turn finally to what God is not.
Near the end of the podcast, O’Connor asks Barron what he thinks young people get wrong about God. That God is a competitive being, he says. Throughout history, there have been too many bad teachers of Christianity. Think fire and brimstone, revival-style preaching. Using fear, these teachers have convinced entire congregations that God is like a North Korean tyrant—authoritarian and vengeful. This is regrettable, as nothing could be further from the truth.
Teachers have convinced entire congregations that God is like a North Korean tyrant—authoritarian and vengeful. This is regrettable, as nothing could be further from the truth.
For starters, God isn’t a being, Barron argues. Rather, He’s “the sheer act of to be”. I am that I am. Thus, He doesn’t need anything from us. We can’t add or take away anything from God. Describing God using adjectives such as “offended” and “angry” is therefore inappropriate, as they psychologize that which has no psyche.
This is quite the departure from popular contemporary Christianity. From a young age, we’re inundated with conceptions of God the “Father,” the protector of the Israelites, whose “Son”—perhaps the ultimate anthropomorphic expression—lived on Earth as a human, died and ascended to heaven. In evangelical circles, believers are asked to cultivate a “relationship” with Christ, who plays the role simultaneously of friend, mentor, teacher and cosmic protector.
Since Barron no doubt affirms the anthropomorphization of the Son, it’s likely that his emphasis on God’s non-beingness relates exclusively to God the Father. Still, this in itself is a refreshing take. For if God is not a being as conventionally understood, then there is nothing to fear. It’s impossible to transgress because there is no “one” to transgress against.
What would that mean for morality? That we must choose not between “Good” and “Evil” acts, but between “Divine” and “Non-Divine” ones. The stakes are then lowered to a comfortable level. We’re no longer competing for a place in heaven. Rather, we’re invited to enrich our lives right now, by living the “right” way. And we live the right way when we have God, the source of objective value, as our ultimate concern.
What might living the right way be like? Barron asks us to imagine the biblical burning bush—we’re on fire, but not consumed. We are, in fact, “fully alive!” This is our true purpose. We are created to be fully alive, as the Living God is fully alive. Hence, God doesn’t say, “Do this, or else I’m going to punish you.” Rather, it’s:
Do this, and things will clear away that will enable a whole world to open up to you.
God as our North Star
To conclude, in the challenging spiritual landscape that is the 21st century, it’s possible to find meaning beyond ourselves. Indeed, we can live our most fulfilling and meaningful lives by holding God as our ultimate, highest concern. This doesn’t mean losing ourselves in the process, but for each of us, it involves the unfolding of our True, Highest Self. Anchoring ourselves to God isn’t like submitting to a tyrant.
On the contrary, God isn’t a being as conventionally understood. Rather, He’s the source of all objective value, as found in beauty and mathematics. He’s unconditional Love—Infinite Grace that sustains us through life’s suffering. When we cast God as our North Star, we embark on the path towards true greatness—a human being fully alive. Why not give it a try?
«RELATED READ» WHEN A WITCH MEETS A PASTOR: What I learned from my conversation with a Christian minister»
